What an amazing productivity since We’re Here Because We’re Here! That particular album was very long in the making (it was released seven years after A Natural Disaster), but you have to admit that Anathema more than made up for it lately, with no less than one release every year. The latest record to date was Universal, which saw the Cavanagh brothers push the orchestral aspect of their band farther than ever with a very special show. This time they’re back with a new album, Distant Satellites – a rather intriguing record, with some songs featuring electronic elements.
Anathema don’t set any limits and show that they’re open to anything, should the musicians feel so inclided. One can’t help wondering what they’ll experiment with next time. But as singer Vincent Cavanagh, who himself has no idea what the future has in store, keeps repeating in the following interview: “Who knows what might happen in the future? […] We will see how it goes”. It’s always a pleasure to talk to this guy. On the menu today: Distant Satellites, obviously, as well as the distance he’s put between himself and politics, his close relationship with electronic music, the strong emotions he felt when singing with an orchestra, and the French band Alcest, with a little request for their mastermind Neige.
Radio Metal: It seems like you have reached a good regularity in your album releases…
Vincent Cavanagh (vocals & guitar): Yeah! [Laughs] Of course we did Universal in the meantime. It has been the last few years now that we’ve releasing something every year. It started with Hindsight in 2009. 2010 was We’re Here Because We’re Here. 2011 was Falling Deeper. 2012 was Weather Systems. 2013 was Universal. And now in 2014 it’s Distant Satellites. We’ll see about 2015! We don’t know yet.
And did you impose yourselves this regularity?
Yeah, we imposed ourselves a hard work ethic. Especially after having a long break, we wanted just to keep the momentum going. We write of lot of music all the time, you see, so we have to try and stay on top of it by releasing it. Otherwise it will just build up and build up and build up until it grows old.
I guess that you also felt really inspired?
We are very inspired all the time. The last few years, I suppose we’ve had a new spur of creative growth and it is still happening now, we are still writing new stuff right now. I don’t see it ending at this point. We’ll just see how it goes.
So I guess that the next album is for the next year?
Who knows? Who knows? We’re not going to promise that but we’re certainly going to work hard and see how it goes.
Once again this album was produced and mixed by Christer-André Cederberg, who also worked on Weather System and Universal. Do you think he revealed himself to be the ideal producer for Anathema?
Yes definitely. We knew on the last album that he’s perfect for us because the guy’s got the perfect temperament, you know. But who knows what might happen in the future? For the moment we’re happy working with him. He is a great guy and he actually played bass on the record. He’s just got this relaxed attitude and a great personality. We get along so well with him. And of course he knows what he’s doing in the studio. We really feel like we’re in safe hands with Christer. So we will see how it goes but it’s nice to have a guy that you can feel comfortable with.
You mixed the new album earlier this year in a studio in Chicago while touring the US with HIM. Wasn’t it a little bit difficult to be on two fronts at the same time?
Oh God, yeah, it was awful to be honest with you. But it had to be done, you know, and where there’s a will there’s a way. That was the rule. I guess we got it done. Also we have to say thanks to Steven Wilson for stepping in and mixing the final two tracks, because Christer had an operation at the last minute on his back, so he had no chance to mix the last two songs. So we needed to ask Steven to step in and make the last two songs for us; which he did in his own inimitable way. We knew again we were in safe hands with Steven, and he just stepped in the last minutes to save the record. So massive thanks to Steven, and also for Christer for actually working through the pain for many weeks. We were lucky to work with such people.
Weren’t you afraid to have some incoherence issues with having two mixers on the album?
No really. I mean, we did not really have the choice for a start, but we trust Steven, you know. If it would have been somebody we don’t know, we would have been worried but we knew Steven. So it was no problem.
Can you tell us the story behind this song in three parts called « The Lost Song »?
Yeah. It came from Danny (Daniel Cavanagh) trying to remember this song or this riff that he had lost a few years ago. So the only thing he remembered of the old riff was the time’s signature which was in 5/4. So he tried to write another riff and it was not the right one. He was trying to think of a beat for it, so I suggested a drumbeat for this riff. And then Cardoso (Daniel Cardoso) played the beats. And next thing you know, my brother Danny just said “Okay that’s good” and then started playing a brand new thing which ended being “The Lost Song Part 1”. And then immediately after the beats stopped he started playing the part 2, improvising on the spot and it just became that song. We recorded it all and a couple hours later he did part 3 with Cardoso, as well as a jam, with me kind of directing it. It happened really quickly. So three songs came out after Daniel trying to remember what this lost song was, which is why they’re all called “The Lost Song”. [Laughs]
It’s funny because that reminds me of the song “Tribute” by Tenacious-D…
Yeah! [Laughs] (He starts singing “Tribute”) “Couldn’t remember the best song in the world, no.” So they end up playing like some kind of “Stairway To Heaven”. [Laughs] The thing is, Danny does not remember the riff. So he doesn’t know whether it was any good. He thinks that it was brilliant but he does not remember what it was. I mean, it was five years ago now, so there’s a good chance that it wasn’t even that good to begin with. [Big laughs] But the funny thing is that we’ve got three new songs out of him trying to fucking figure out what it was. [Laughs] It’s hilarious.
Bonus, Vincent Cavanagh singing « Tribute » by Tenacious D :
[audio:interviews/2014/Vicent Cavanagh (Anathema) – Tribute – 2014.04.10.mp3|title=Vincent Cavanagh sings Tribute]You have a song called “Anathema” right in the middle of the album, why self-titling a song at this point and what is this song about?
Well it was a bold move. We all looked at each other when Danny suggested. He suggested it because he did the lyrics. We all loved the music and the music had just this kind of doomy vibe to it, very dark and ominous, big and epic, you know, like there’s a big riff at the end. It is a bit reminiscent of some of our earlier stuff. So Danny wrote these lyrics, he looked at us and then explained to us what it is about, and said “I’m thinking of calling this Anathema”. We all looked at each other and we just said “do it”. So, this one’s really Danny’s song and idea. Where I stepped in is on that second riff at the end, that was going to be a different song and I turned around and said: “Okay what you need to do is to take that riff from that song and put it there”. And he was: “No, No, it’s not going to work” and I said: “Looks, trust me it’s going to work”. And it did work. But the rest of it is all from Danny. The title’s idea was Danny.
If you listen to the lyrics, you know it’s about this band and the people in it and everything we’ve been through, our endeavors in this band, and everything we’re trying to do and everything we have done in the past and what we tried to do in the past, and everything like that. And it’s fucking cool, man. I really think it was the right time and the right song. Because we’re very close to people and we’re very close to each other, and that’s why Distant Satellites, the title of the album, works so well, because the satellites that we’re talking about is people. We sometimes are on different orbits but when we cross, we cross like no time has passed, but sometimes we have to let go because we know we’re on a different path. There are certain people in your life, you know, the mad ones, the creative people, the people who just took too many drugs but they had some kind spark of genius about them, people like that, some people who actually pushed the self-destruction button, but they are still beautiful people… There are so many people like that in our lives that we’ve come across. That is what “Distant Satellites” is, people being on their own orbit. And “Anathema”, the song, refers to those kinds of people as well, so it all fits really.
Could this title “Distant Satellites” also mean that you guys are distant observers of this world?
No that’s not what we intended. What we intended is something like a metaphor of an orbit, people on different orbits. You know, we are like [he changes his mind], I guess you could…Yeah, you know what? You’re right. I guess you could think like that, because we did step out of what you might call a real life, you know, this everyday life. At a very early age, when we were fifteen, when we left school, we stepped out of the whole world, of the money race, you know, trying to get a job, buy a house, build a family and have a normal life. We stepped out of that and chose a different path. So in that sense, you are a kind of observer. I have to admit, I pay zero attention to politics. I used to pay very very close attention and be very very opinionated about all kind of political issues. But in these days I couldn’t give two shits because I just… It doesn’t affect me in my life and I can’t believe it affects any change. So I just have to admit that it’s better for me to live my life without it, at least at the moment, because politics make me unhappy. The direct politics that affect me, the direct political change affecting wherever I’m going to live, and to read newspapers every single day and to be actively involved in politics and how you could affect change, it makes me an unhappy person, which I don’t want to be. I spent many years being unhappy, so I don’t want to spend anymore. So as of right now, all I do is focus on my music, my art, my life with art and that’s it. That’s my focus. So in that sense, I guess we are observers. Yes we are. We’re distant observers. I don’t want to feel like that, it’s just the way it is.
The songs “You’re Not Alone”, “Distant Satellites” and “Take Shelter” feature some electronic beat, which is unusual for Anathema. But on Weather Systems the song “The Storm Before The Calm” featured a kind of electronic vibe too. So, was this song the starting point that motivated you to experiment more with electronic sounds?
Yeah, I guess so. It comes from me and John, really. Danny hasn’t really brought any electronic stuff yet, but… Actually, yeah, “Take Shelter”, the song, that was Danny, but he had that idea going around a few years. He probably had that before Weather Systems, in fact, but it just didn’t make it on Weather Systems or any of the previous stuff. So we’ve all have been into electronic music for a very long time, you know. I mean, I used to work in a recording studio when I was seventeen, in Liverpool, and the guy who owned the studio was in an electronic band. He used to introduce me to a few of his friends when he was in his group called Solenoid. I remember, at that time I was learning how to program beats, to use drum machines and listening to electronic music, and they introduced me to people like Aphex Twin and Hardfloor and some of the future sound of London, stuffs that was going on in the early 90’s. It wasn’t techno that you would hear in the charts. It was only played on white labels and clubs, but these guys were like heavily involved in the rave scene. I got my education there. And then I started to imagine programs and beats, I learnt the software. And then quickly they asked me to program the beats for their band. I did a couple raves with them, a couple of festivals, like playing live toms and live beats. I’ve always been into it. Then John got heavily into it in the 90’s as well, just basically going out to raves and clubs, listening to techno for whole weekends, non-stop. That’s where the “Distant Satellites” riff came from. It went into many combinations until it eventually found its place on this album. The sparkle came from that time.
So we have a long history with techno and electronica. And I have always been a big fan of everything that’s come out on Warps Records, ever since Aphex Twin basically, ever since I got into it. So I followed everything from Boards Of Canada to Squarepusher, Autechre and everybody else. I absolutely adore electronic music. I really do. I listen to a lot more electronic music than I do rock, put it that way. It’s just the way it goes. So yeah, it crept into the band, which is a natural thing, I suppose. We will see where it goes. We will see. We know that we’re a rock band, but we’ve got two drummers now, so what’s happening is that Daniel Cardoso, who’s Portuguese, is going to be playing the live kit and John’s now moved on to the percussion side of things, like playing pads and electronic percussions, along with acoustic percussions and synthesizers and things like that. So we’re going to have a more interesting setup live, where we’re actually going to have a drummer and a percussionist. It’s going to make for more interesting rhythms and more energy and, you know, something that’s a bit more exciting live. We’ll see how it goes.
On some songs on this album there are some big and beautiful orchestral arrangements. Is this the direct consequence or continuation of the show you did for Universal, with this big orchestra?
Yeah and it’s also going back to We’re Here Because We’re Here. That’s the first time we worked with Dave Stewart who’s our link to the orchestra. He was the guy to whom we gave ideas, he orchestrated it and got it ready for the full orchestra. And then we invited the London Session Orchestra that we’ve been using for the last three albums, it’s the same players, they’re people that we trust. So we have been doing that now since 2010. Before that we were working with string quartets live here and there. We were working with cello players. It just started to just grow and grow into Universal, which is the combination of everything that we could do in a performance like that. I guess that’ll always stay a part of the group. We’ve got different sides to us now. We can play live acoustically, which is just me, Danny and Lee, and in which we use loops samplers, we play beats and keyboardish kind of sounds on the guitars so they don’t just sound like acoustic guitars but like other instruments, and that’s kind of cool. And then we’ve got the full-on rock side of the band. We’ve got the orchestral side of the band. And who knows if it’ll morph into something electronic here or there? Who knows? But basically we’re open minded in how we write and perform music in different concepts, different settings, different ways of doing it and different ways of interpreting the same song for different settings as well. You could play a song like “Distant Satellites” or “Take Shelter” on acoustic guitar or a piano completely differently to the way you would do with a full band, you know. You would have to change the interpretation, but one of the most interesting things about music is how you can adapt and morph into whatever you need it to be.
How was it working with an orchestra for Universal, to rearrange your songs?
First of all, the arrangements had to be slightly different because there’s less chance for massive details, you know, when you’re playing live with a brand new orchestra who you do not really know, so we had to kind of make sure there wasn’t too much intricate detail in there. But they were there to serve the songs, as opposed to trying to show off. So we didn’t know what the orchestra was going to be like, but it ended up that they were really great, really fantastic players. So we rearranged everything beforehand. It was a different sized orchestra, it was bigger, so we had to rearrange that. And then we rehearsed with them for a couple of days and on the day of the show. So we did like an hour, two days before, and then we did the day of the show for a couple of hours and then figured it out from there, basically. It was an amazing experience to be actually doing the gig, because I remember at a certain point, I was doing the song “Universal” and the intro, the first couple of minutes of the song, it’s basically just me singing with the orchestra as my backing band, and the funny thing was that I haven’t actually thought of it, I haven’t thought of what it was going to be like, hadn’t imagined in advance. So for me to just finally be singing with a real orchestra as my backing band, I was blown away! At that moment I was really touched. That was really an emotional moment for me. So yeah, it was over in a flash, it seemed like it was just ten minutes and the whole gig was done. It made a hell of a souvenir. [Laughs] It was great.
And did that make your own interpretation more emotional actually?
I guess so, but I’m always very emotional when I interpret the songs. But I tried not to get too carried away, otherwise I was going to lose my vocals, you know. You have to stay focused on your singing, especially if you’ve got an orchestra as your backing band, you have a responsibility there [Laughs]. You know, don’t get too carried away and just make sure you hold it together. I hoped that’s what I did, but it was huge moment for me. It was fantastic.
I know that Danny is a big fan of the band Sigur Ros and that this is a very important band for him. And on this new album there are some parts that really remind me of this band like on…
“Take Shelter”! Yeah, definitely. I think he’d be the first person to admit that was an influence. But I don’t know, man, it’s his way of doing things. That song particularly is an old song actually. It is an old idea that was going around before we did We’re Here Because We’re Here. We had that gap before we did We’re Here Because We’re Here, you know, when we had written a lot of stuff. It came up around then, in 2005 or 2006. So I don’t know if he was even listening to Sigur Ros at that time, not when he wrote the piano, at least. I don’t know. You’d have to ask him. I don’t know. In the exact timeline, I am not sure. But I mean, Sigur Ros is one of the fucking best bands in the world, especially to Danny.
The album is somewhat separated in two halfs, the first half being the more « classic » Anathema, so to speak, whereas the second half shows the band being more adventurous. Was this structure intended to reassure the listener before surprising him?
I guess so. It was the natural flow of the songs as well, you see. The most important part of the album for me is “Firelight”. Because “Firelight” is like a bridge between the two worlds. You can relax on that synth sound that Danny programmed on his synth at home. And I absolutely adore that song, I just could listen to it all day. That particular track just sets you up and puts you in the right kind of mindset when you’re going to hear a beat like “Distant Satellites” coming in. Can you imagine if you came in with a beat like “Distant Satellites” after track two or something like that? It would not work, you know. So “Distant Satellites” was always going to be the second to last song and “Take Shelter” was always going to be the last song. That was a given. We knew that before all the other songs. You know what I mean? They were the first two on the board. They were the first two songs that we even thought of for this record. We knew then that they were going to be the second to last and the last song, so the rest of the album has just had to go before it [Laughs]. We just knew that was the way to start and to finish the record. And we don’t intentionally think in advance: “Ok, we’ll lead the listener down this path.” What’s more important is how the songs are flowing to each other. Those two songs being what they are, we knew that they would close the album, and everything had just to flow into that in the best way possible. And that is what we did.
The artwork was created by Korean new media artist Sang Jun Yoo and based around his Distant Light Installation. Can tell us more about his art and this singular choice as an album cover?
With his art, his installation, he creates an experience you immerse yourself in and you participate in. It’s not something he’s used to, he wasn’t really used to work with a band, but he was open to the idea. As soon as we saw it… Especially Danny and John, they were the two main protagonists who when they saw this artwork, they knew that it would be perfect for the record. But we needed a change as well. We needed something that was a break from what we always do, which is something like a very elaborate artwork, very descriptive, with very strong imageries. We just wanted to do something that was a little bit more abstract and something that would invoke feelings, you know, colors and feelings. And with the music they kind of go together. It’s abstract. When you see the deluxe package and when you see all the artworks together, it makes more sense as you listen to it. It’s part of the whole experience as opposed to having everything on a plate in front of you. This is something that you immerse yourself in, you try to take it all in, as opposed to having everything given to you. It invokes more of your imagination as opposed to having everything spelled out in front of you.
Have you thought using Distant Light Installation on stage actually?
Yeah, we need to speak to him about that. If he’d be willing to do it, then we’d love to do it, you know, if it would work. But yeah, that’d be cool.
After all these years, you’re still very much associated with the metal world. Despite that, do you think you have managed to find your place in the alternative music scene, which is where most of your potential audience probably is now?
It’s starting to happen. At least, as far as we’re concerned, our music is going where we want it to go. But we’re not trying to find an audience. We’re just doing the music that we need to do. We will see. I mean, whatever audience you’re attracted to or whatever audience is attracted to you, it’s kind of out of our hands, really. We will see how it goes, you know. But there certainly are people from all kinds of walks of life and all kinds of music influences that are getting through Anathema these days. It’s cool. I like that. You could be into anything being into this band. We will see how it goes. It’s not really something I can say myself. It is not really my job. My job is to make the music. I am not a promoter, you know [laughs].
Anathema is an ever evolving band. What didn’t you do with the band yet that you would want to do?
All kinds of things, really! Quite a lot. An awful lot. You should ask that question in five years time or five albums time, and then see where we are. Who knows? There always will be something.
In 2010 Danny told us that the extra time you took for We’re Here Because We’re Here allowed you to perfect the songs and that it wouldn’t have been as good if you had released it in 2006. So, do you think that with Weather System and now Distant Satellites, you have managed to reach the same level of quality but in a shorter time?
Yeah. This is something about the way we are working now; we just get things done quicker. We’ve got a lot more energy and a lot more ideas flowing these days. Everybody’s creating and doing stuff, so… I don’t know, man. It just seems easy at the moment. It’s a lot easier than it was in 2006, put it that way. For many different reasons, I think we can quite easily keep the pace and still put out the top quality stuff that we need to do. We can never just put an album out because you need to have an album out, the album is either ready or it’s not. If it’s ready, it’s ready. If it wants to come out, we’ll put it out. If we think it is ready then it will come out. Otherwise we don’t do it.
The French band Alcest opened for you on the North American tour last year. And with their latest album called Shelter we can definitely hear that the two bands have a lot in common. What are your thoughts about Alcest?
Great band. It’s an absolutely great band. I didn’t know too much of their music before we left for the tour. I did meet up with Stéphane (Paut, alias Neige) who wanted to talk about some things. We met first at a festival in Lithuania and that was cool. I saw them live there and I’ve quite liked what they were doing. And after that, I invited Stéphane to come to my place and we just hung out for an evening. We drank some wine and listened to music. He played me some of his stuff and I played him some of mine. We had a great time, we hit it off actually. He’s a great guy, a fantastic musician and a great songwriter. And then when we went on tour, I realized how much of their music I really liked. After a few concerts, I would come on stage and say to Stéphane: “Okay, what’s this song? Oh, okay, that’s a new one. Alright then, what’s this one?” He goes: “That’s another new one.” “Right. Okay, what about this one?” “That’s another new one.” It just happened that all the ones that I liked were all off the new album. I didn’t know the album, so I didn’t know what I was listening to, but it seemed like Shelter was a really good album. I don’t have a copy of it yet, but I would like to get one! [Laughs] So Stéphane if you are reading this or listening to this, come on and sort it out! [Laughs]
Actually what’s funny is that their album is called Shelter and your last song on the album is called “Take Shelter”. That sounds like a message : “go buy Shelter!”
Yeah exactly! There you go! We put a plug on our album [laughs]. I love it. At least he has one copy, doesn’t he? Come on! I’ll send him a text actually and tell him. Because I’ve been busy since I last saw them. And now I’m back home, it’d be nice to see him again.
Interview conducted by phone on April, 10th 2014 by Spaceman.
Transcription : Thibaut Saumade.
Questions & introduction : Spaceman.
Photos: Scarlet Page.
Anathema official website: Anathema.ws
